Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:04 Welcome to London Stock Exchange's Tech, i p o podcast, the Oracle for tech founders looking to take their companies public. I'm your host, Stephen Kelly, chairperson of Tech Nation. Today I'm so excited to speak with Sarah Murray, founder and chief Executive of Big Technologists. In July, 2021, Sarah took big technologists public on the London Stock Exchange. Big Technologists has created a leading technology platform for remote monitoring of individuals. Now we know that Sarah and her team have only just scratched the surface on their growth plans, and today we'll be chatting with Sarah about how she successfully scaled a company internationally, what led to the I p O on the Londons stock exchange, and where she sees the company growing in the future. So Sarah, it's amazing to have you on the podcast today.
Speaker 2 00:01:00 Thanks, Steven. It well, it's great to be here and it's great to see you after such a long time.
Speaker 1 00:01:05 Maybe just, um, tell you about yourself and, and how you came up with a brilliant idea of Buddy.
Speaker 2 00:01:10 So the, the story of how I came up with Buddy is quite well known. It's, you know, it's been in the press, in the, in the past, and it's sort of on our website. Um, and people sort of say to me occasionally, is it really true? Um, and it really is true. So I was thinking about what to do next, having sold a previous business, and, and I started thinking about when my daughter was very small and I'd done that thing. Many parents do turn around in the supermarket, heart stopping moment, she's not there. And, um, somebody stepped forward and said, don't, don't worry, madam. We'll sweep the shop. You can stand at the exit of the carpark and look in the back of the cars as they leave. You know, I was utterly horrified. So I completely ignored him. Obviously <laugh> ran screaming around the shop, and, and I found her in a few minutes, so I was very lucky. But it got me thinking with modern technology, why can't I give her something that means I can find her whenever I need to? So I tried to buy something, couldn't find anything and thought, well, how hard can it be? I'll make one. Obviously, if I'd known them what I know now, I wouldn't dreamt of setting off on that path.
Speaker 1 00:02:04 A any advice that you'd give, um, high growth CEOs out there in, in terms of how they represent their products and companies in the market?
Speaker 2 00:02:12 Well, those high growth CEOs already know what they're doing, and that's why they're so successful. But, you know, everybody knows you, you have to absolutely take care of that brand. And that really is about thinking. I think that probably the, the best learning I've ever had is, um, going into a new market, you tend to follow the people who come and approach you. So someone comes and, and says, can I take your product to this market? And because they're the first to ask you, you tend to go with that. Um, and that's the thing I'd say, stop there and think, well, if somebody's interested in entering that market, I should be, are these the right guys to do that with me? So don't just go with them because they're the first. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:02:45 It's starting a business, Sarah. It is hard enough. Uh, and you personally have sort of scaled and successfully, uh, had companies bought multiple businesses in including confuse.com. So I'm sure the audience will be very familiar with some of the brand names you've been associated with in the past. Um, in terms of your previous ventures, what are your thoughts that sort of went through your head as you scale those businesses, uh, and you achieve great success?
Speaker 2 00:03:11 Well, I've always only had one mantra, really, really, which is, what am I selling to somebody, you know, who's my customer? What do they want? And all of the businesses that I've started and grown have been around a customer who's wanted something that either didn't exist or they're just not happy with it. So I've been able to give them something better. So I spend all of my time really talking to my customers about what they like, what they don't like, and how I can improve that. And I have that red rag to a bull thing. If somebody says, that can't be done, I, I really want to do it. Um, that does mean I've had some spectacular failures where I've tried to build something that just hasn't been possible. Um, but I, I think you really do only learn from those failures. So that's been great as well. So even today, all I really spend my time doing is talking to customers and, and trying to, to help them to improve what they're doing.
Speaker 1 00:03:57 That's great. Yeah. I I've heard you described as, as an insurgent for customers and, uh, I think that's customer obsession is so vital to building great companies. And obviously growth companies grown at what, 50%? Yeah. Uh, compound growth sustainably have to have customers at the heart of the business and the chief executive leading the flag really is, um, so important.
Speaker 2 00:04:18 Yeah. Cause that that growth really comes from customers selling to other customers, doesn't it? Yeah. You, you know, you're massively increasing your Salesforce if all of your customers are selling your behalf. I mean, you'll have seen that at Sage. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:04:29 And how, how do you, um, how do you actually capture that and bottle it for all your current employees and colleagues and the future employees to have that same culture?
Speaker 2 00:04:39 God, I wish I knew <laugh>. That would be amazing. Um, but I think that as a leader, you do, you create a culture, and I was so touched when, when we iPod, um, my team came and did a presentation for me a couple of weeks later, and they produced a video and it was just lots of individuals saying what the R I P O meant to them. And so many of them talked about Sarah as an inspirational leader and a and, and a culture setter and, and how they love the culture at our firm. So I think that, you know, as the c e you know, you are setting that culture. The more time you spend talking to everybody, the more you are spreading that. Yeah. I think also that's interesting for, for women entrepreneurs because we, we, we are sort of less confident in telling people, you know, that we think it should be this way. We're much more interested in listening to how other people think it should be. Um, I think there's a real difference there. So I'd say to all those women out there as well, get out there and, and talk to everybody about the way you think it is and, and, you know, be brave.
Speaker 1 00:05:34 Yeah. I think that's amazing advice. So, when you go back to thinking about, um, the event on July 28th, when, when did you actually start thinking about going public
Speaker 2 00:05:46 Buddy? Um, was slightly different from any company I've had before in that, from day one, I'd get random letters, emails, contacts, people saying, how do I buy shares in your company? And, you know, having to go back and explain, actually it's a private company, you can't buy shares in it. But that sent me on a trail of thinking this is clearly a company that should be owned by a wider, um, wider base of people. And the only way to achieve that is to be public. So it was always slightly in the back of my mind, but also because I'd started companies before and I've got a little bit older, I, I wasn't sure I had the appetite for doing a startup again. So this one I really wanted to be a grow up and hold it for the longer term. And being in the public market enables me to do that. So I'm, you know, I'm not a seller on the I P o and my, my stake beforehand. My stake afterwards, pretty much the same. So I can hold on, but enable a lot, a wider audience to, to take apart in what I'm building.
Speaker 1 00:06:37 That's amazing. And, uh, in terms of, uh, that process, how, how did you go around selecting your team, I guess your advisors and the board, all, all the various things you need to get ready for as a public company?
Speaker 2 00:06:52 Yeah, so we, um, we IPOed, um, very well, I believe at the end of July this year. And if I look back to November last year, we didn't have a chairman. We didn't have a cfo, F O <laugh>. So if I'd approached people then they'd have sort of laughed at me. Um, but I'd been looking for a chairman for a very long time, probably two or three years. And I'd interviewed an awful lot of people. Um, and I was looking for someone who wasn't going to come and wait in with an opinion, but was going to really draw a team together and, and tease out of us what we believed w was the best option in any given scenario. Um, and it took me a while to find that. And, um, so Simon Collins came on board and he used to, um, he used to run KPMG here in the uk.
Speaker 2 00:07:32 He's an extremely measured man, very smart, and I have huge respect for him. So got very lucky with finding him. And he was just introduced by somebody. And then the same with cfo, F O, which must have been a, you know, six months later, um, Darren who had been C F O vx and then, then spent, you know, six months basically, um, coming out of that, um, was looking something new and was a perfect fit, gets on brilliant with our team, thinks in the same way we do, and we just got very lucky with similar culture. So finding the right people was about casting that net widely, asking everybody who I knew, do you know somebody who could be the right person for us? And then going through all of those <laugh> those meetings until you find the right one. A bit like dating, um, advisors was a lot more straightforward because I was the sit at boohoo until sort of April, April May last year.
Speaker 2 00:08:21 And so I knew used reasonably well from there and they'd always done extremely good job. So I, you know, just rang them up and said, you know, I'm thinking about doing this. And, uh, and then we decided to, to go sole broker because we weren't seeking to do a massive i p o and create loads of hype and spread the noise very widely. We really wanted to pick some strategic investors who would really support us through the next stage of our growth and have quite a small number of, of investors. So we p we did a sort of pre i p o went to talk to a small number and everybody was really interested. So that worked really well. And then in terms of lawyers and accountants, we, again, we got lucky with Crow because they um, they helped us through the accounting report and they were absolutely fantastic.
Speaker 2 00:09:02 I definitely could not complain about them at all. They got to know the business really quickly and did a great job. But they, you know, the shout out person is Chan, um, from Hil Dickinson who had moved to Hil Dickinson fairly recently from Mishcon. And he was the lawyer who supported us through the I P O and he was absolutely brilliant. I mean, he worked harder than anybody else and got everything done in, in record time and, you know, he was absolutely fantastic. So a bit of lark and a bit of group of people who were really experienced and hardworking.
Speaker 1 00:09:31 That's amazing. And, uh, I know Simon Collins, I think he's brilliant. So building that team of, um, high cadra capability and then keep em together. I think a lot of the audience probably, um, wouldn't expect the I p O to be very glamorous as it is, but it, it is just interesting when you reflect now over the last year, just how hard and relentless has that kind of journey getting to the I p o been and, and what's it taken in terms of keeping the team together and keeping 'em focused?
Speaker 2 00:10:02 I'd quite like to slightly dispel the hard and relentless cuz I, I, part of the reason I'm sitting here is cuz I want to throw away that idea that as a female CEO it's hard to IPO o your company. Um, it really isn't. And, and people should be thinking about doing that and, and get on that trail and do it. So yes, it's some work over, you know, two or three months because all of those little things that you really ought to have in place in your business that you've been a bit lax about because you've been focused on dealing with the latest buyer and, and dealing with customers and staff, all of those things need to be brought together and they need to be brought together very quickly, um, and gone over with a fine tooth comb by, by lots of different advisors. Um, so there is a lot of work, but that, that really happens in a two to three month period before the date, because if it happens a long time before that, you'd have to repeat it.
Speaker 2 00:10:49 Yeah. Um, and that is no different really from the process of bringing a big PE on board. In fact, you know, the PEs would say it's a lot less work to take a PE on board. I I would say it's actually very similar and the end result when you, if you IPOs instead of getting the PE route is, is that you've got a a a whole group of investors who are absolutely backing you, supporting you, talking about how brilliant you are instead of one. Um, and so you don't have that single master. You've got a wider group which, which gives you effectively wide mentorship and, and that's very useful. So if, if you are out there and you are thinking maybe you should I p o I would say don't be put off by people say it's who say it's really hard, it really isn't. It's really doable. So go for it.
Speaker 1 00:11:30 And it sounds like you built good governance, good business integrity process systems and obviously high quality people Yeah. Sort of from the get go. So there wasn't a lot of kind of catch up to do, uh, in terms of the process. Obviously a lot of filings and diligence as you say, uh, any event would gather that same, uh, experience. So what, what advice now sitting here today, Sarah and uh, I guess bathed in the sunshine of having done the I p o, would you give, um, to any other founders out there across the UK in terms of your I P O experience and going public?
Speaker 2 00:12:05 Well, I think probably the best advice is to really think about what you want the outcome of the I P O to be. Because you do get into a sort of i p o track once you stay, say you're going to do it, and you get your advisors on board of people pushing you into a certain direction, which is the way it's always done. And so many people said to me, oh, but this is the norm. This is the market norm. And you have to keep that hat that you've always had while you were growing your business of challenging that market norm and saying, well, hang on it. That's not the way I want it. You know, I don't want 50 investors, I want 12. Um, and stick with that. And, and when people start to realize actually you are pretty sure about where you're going then, then the, you know, that they'll follow <laugh> in the same way they do when you're building your business. So, um, really my only advice when you get those advisors around the table, don't be diverted from your path stick to where it is you want to end up.
Speaker 1 00:12:53 And that's great advice actually. And that, that would be, if we had, um, people like Mark Benioff here today, he'd say the same things, you know, built a 200 billion company at Salesforce and all about focusing on the outcomes. Yeah. And I think that's good advice, Sarah. And just looking at, at how the kind of movie plays out. We're, we are weeks away from the I P O, um, I think you launched on day one at 577 million market, uh, capitalization valuation and then had a, a fantastic first day, which is always nice. And then you've just gone from strength to strength since then. Um, how, how does it feel in terms of your, your expectations when you look back in the summer to how it's actually been realized and particularly the amazing, uh, reception from the investors?
Speaker 2 00:13:39 Yeah, <laugh>, that's a great question. I, um, looking back in the summer, I felt it was a little bit like throwing the dice. I thought that the, the valuation was, was reasonable, but I could personally justify to myself that I was thinking if I was an outsider, would I invest at this price? And I thought I definitely would. Um, but it was, it was also reasonable for sellers. So I thought it was a properly fair buys and sellers meeting. Um, and I thought either the market will really get what we do and it will race off and it will get go up fairly quickly or it will just be stagnant for a long time. And I really wasn't sure which, and of course the market had got what we were doing, which is, I was impressed by that. And so the, the valuation has grown.
Speaker 1 00:14:20 Yeah, and I, one of the things when I was, um, back at Sage actually, I, I felt a responsibility to the UK and I was disappointed that, you know, Sage was the only technology company on the ZI 100, uh, software company. And I always aspired for the UK to have dozens of tech companies knocking on the door, the ftse hundred and, and potentially like 30, 40% of the market being made up of these high growth fantastically sustainable businesses. So now we've got a company, um, that you lead big technologies that could be, you know, footsy two 50, um, gone from a valuation of half a billion to over a billion as we speak. And, um, but you chose to go on the AIM marketplace. What, what was the, the rationale behind that?
Speaker 2 00:15:06 Um, well it's a straightforward rationale, which is AIM is inheritance tax, <laugh> protected. So as a private company, I can leave my shares in the company to my daughter. And, um, and there's no inheritance tax on that. And that's still true with aim, but the main market, that isn't the case. So that made it a straightforward decision for me.
Speaker 1 00:15:26 That's very, very authentic and very honest of you, Sarah.
Speaker 2 00:15:30 In fact, you know, one of the decisions, one of the reasons we had to i p o when we did was cuz we are going to get too big. And I, I know that if we, if we'd gone to the billion before floating, there would've been a lot of pressure to go to the main market.
Speaker 1 00:15:42 That's great. And, uh, obviously the, the, A market has served you brilliantly and I think we'll do in the future with great delivery and future growth. In terms of, um, if we look at the UK ecosystem, uh, I think historically, just thinking about this, maybe 10 years ago, uh, there would've been criticism, uh, around the depth of European analysts and investors, uh, understand the technology. But I know it's early days, but what, what's been your experience? You've got some fantastic investors like Lions Trust and Aberdeen. What, what's your your view of the uk I guess maturity and really appreciation of technology companies.
Speaker 2 00:16:21 Actually, I'm extremely impressed by the UK investors and I, I was reading something very recently with the whole Theranos scandal going on in in the US and I I met Elizabeth Holmes, um, back in the day. Um, and I, I think there's, you know, there's a real problem with investing in stuff that you really don't understand. I think it's been Warren Buffett's mantra from day one. You must only invest in things you understand. So I think it's quite reasonable that European investors, and particularly the one, the British ones I've met, want to understand what it is they're buying. Now I'm, I'm the fortunate position that I can explain very easily, you know, if we're in the, in the criminal justice market, this is a GPS device that goes around an offender's ankle and and enables an authority to, to know where they're going. Everyone can understand that very easily. Um, they might not have been L two 20 years ago and 15 years ago I did have to explain what G P S was, but now we all have it in our car, we wouldn't think twice about it. So I think that um, investors in the UK and certainly in in the London market are absolutely capable of understanding the technologies that are presented to them and have a real appetite for it. And I think we're proving that.
Speaker 1 00:17:27 That's brilliant. Sarah and I, I just think, um, the other thing you touched on earlier, um, is around women entrepreneurs and just seeing the success, uh, of what's happened in the UK has been really heartwarming. And now I think you're the third, uh, woman, c e o, uh, founder to actually launch a business on the public markets this year. What, what does that mean for you?
Speaker 2 00:17:50 Yeah, so on that one, you know the question you asked earlier about the hard and relentless i p o route, um, you know, that that will put women off and uh, and that's why I'm here to say don't be put off cuz it really isn't hard and, uh, given most of the things most women are capable of doing every day, I think it's, it's, you know, it's a walk in the park.
Speaker 1 00:18:10 I agree. And it's great to see people like Poppy Dark Trace and, and you and I I think you are iconic. I describe you in terms of, I said the shadow that you cast, uh, and the inspiration you'll be given to, you know, teenagers and the next generation of founders, entrepreneurs in including obviously women. Uh, is, is there any, when you look back at your younger self 20 years ago and you look at yourself now, is there any advice you would've given yourself that's different to how you played out the, the movie?
Speaker 2 00:18:42 Wow, that's a good question. Um, probably not because, um, I am where I am cuz of a lot of mistakes that I've made and, and as I said earlier, I think it's important to make those mistakes. That's how you learn stuff. So life is just a, a creation of of learnings and uh, and I've had plenty of them so I, I wouldn't want to say anything to my younger self cuz I wouldn't wanna scare her about what the future held.
Speaker 1 00:19:05 That's interesting. And you know, I think, um, this podcast is a great platform and you know, I'm very lucky, I'm currently a chair of technician. My board is actually 50 50 gender, um, women and men and that was a quite deliberate choice. But I, I see, uh, the future in the UK having, uh, many, many more IPOs of tech companies, many more, uh, companies like yourself on the Footsy 100 and actually many more women leaders boards really populated and, and driving towards that 50 50 uh, perspective on gender and, and all the other lenses of inclusion and diversity. Um, when, when you look at that, what, given this platform, what, what do you think the UK needs to do for all of us to actually achieve that vision?
Speaker 2 00:19:55 Wow, okay. <laugh> not difficult. That's difficult.
Speaker 1 00:19:58 There's so much to do. Um,
Speaker 2 00:20:01 Okay, so this slightly takes me back to blaming the mothers. Um, and a lot of women probably laugh when they hear this, but um, we're very gentle with our sons. You know, we, we say, you know, our son sets the table and we say, congratulations, that's fantastic. You're brilliant. Our daughter sets the table and, and it's just nothing is said cuz it's expected. So we, we've in the past created these expectations of roles that have made women just less confident. And I've got some amazing women in my, my business, but I still have to keep telling them that they can really do it, they, they and encouraging them, whereas the guys just have that innate confidence because their mothers have told 'em how brilliant they are from the moment, you know, from the moment they were born. So I'd say to the mothers out there, just be so much more confident with your daughters, push them forward and, and I see that happening and certainly my daughter's generation and she's 28 now and she's grown up in a, in a, in a world where boys and girls sat in class together and just respected each other as equals.
Speaker 2 00:20:58 Um, and that's a real change. So as that generation comes through, then I think that change will happen naturally.
Speaker 1 00:21:05 And is early days in your i p o journey, um, is there anything kind of that you see as changing in the company post i p o and, and, uh, what the future holds from here?
Speaker 2 00:21:17 Actually, nothing's really changed, which is exactly as I was expected to be. We obviously have, um, sort of more reporting to do and that makes us think more about quarterly numbers, which we've never done in the past. But I keep saying to the team if, if they say, well, you know, we, we've got to do this slightly different. Cause I I I just say, so many of the new investors said to me when we iPod, Sarah, you've built a great company, don't change anything. So we're not gonna change it. We're just gonna behave like we did before. And if that means we have a bad quarter because we're investing more for something. We just explained that to investors and I think we were fairly clear when we IPOed about our long-term strategy. And if people want to judge us on our quarterly results, then you know, that that may cause some, some investors to change whether or not they want to invest. Um, but at the end of the day, nothing's changed and we're just, we've got a higher profile now and more cash in the bank.
Speaker 1 00:22:08 Oh, that's great. And did you get a perspective for, I've talked to a lot of, particularly US founders where some of the colleagues think the IPO's the end of the journey, whereas obviously, you know, and I know it's just the start of another chapter in the journey of the company and, and looking forward, obviously you talked about quarterly reporting and that drumbeat of performance and growth and achieving everything for the shareholders as well as all the other stakeholders of the customers you've touched on. Uh, do the folks in the company kind of totally get that?
Speaker 2 00:22:40 They do, yeah. And in fact, they're much more interested in the shares and their options that they had. Um, so that, you know, a lot of people have have made some serious money and, you know, life changing in many cases. And so they're really excited about that. So for the first time I think people really get what those options meant. Um, and now look at, well, where are we going next and how do we, how do we grow that even more?
Speaker 1 00:23:04 Yeah, no, I, and I applaud that and I think, um, and I think what you've done actually Sarah, is amazing. Not only building a great culture in the company, uh, and when I saw you in government building it all around customers and also being that insurgent for not only, uh, the customers, but also changing the world for a better place. So that's very powerful. Um, so in, in terms of, um, what I'd love to do if you indulge us is a sort of quick, far round of, um, just, uh, a couple of questions, uh, that you can kind of answer very swiftly. So what do you like doing when you're not running your public company?
Speaker 2 00:23:41 Well, I'm a helicopter pilot, so I like to fly friends to lunch or, um, there's a guy that I fly with, um, down in New Yorker where we, we go and try and land on a very small rock in the sea or things like that, that are just really fun. Um, and while I'm doing that, I really can't think about work.
Speaker 1 00:24:00 Okay. Wh when, when did you get the bug around helicopters?
Speaker 2 00:24:04 Um, I got my license in summer of 2010. Uh, the first time I, I really tried, it was in 2009 and the first time I flew I felt this grin across my face and that was it. I was hooked.
Speaker 1 00:24:16 Wow. Awesome. And um, when you're, when you're either in the helicopter or, or not and maybe on a scheduled airline, where's your, where's your favorite holiday destination?
Speaker 2 00:24:26 I love Baha, California. So there's a small place called San Jose del Cabo right at the bottom there in Mexico and it's just heaven. So it, there's a hotel that I go to that overlooks the sea, which the Sea of Corres, um, Jacque Casto described it as, as the aquarium of the world. Um, you can look at the sea for 10 minutes and you'll see something jump out a whale or a seaway or, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 00:24:48 Wow. Looks awesome. Um, so if there was one person dead or alive that you could have coffee with, who, who would it be?
Speaker 2 00:24:55 <laugh>. So I would have coffee with Robert Buckland, who is our current minister for Justice because I would love to ask him why, um, with all the other great ministries around the world, recognizing how, how brilliant our technology is and embracing it and building the future of electronic monitoring, why UK Ministry of Justice doesn't want to.
Speaker 1 00:25:16 Wow. I hope you're listening out there Robert Barland. And uh, I definitely think you should uh, direct message, uh, Sarah and get her in for a chat. And uh, actually I I'm sure you would see the justice system, right for transformation to produce much better outcomes and, uh, you could be part of the solution there, Sarah. Um, so who would you say is your, your biggest mentor or biggest mentors?
Speaker 2 00:25:40 Okay, so I, I often get asked that question, who's your mentor? And I, I just don't have a mentor. Um, I've learned everything really by trial and error. Um, but you know, I said my daughter's now 28 and from very small, I've always talked to her about what I was doing in business and so she's got an extremely entrepreneurial head on her shoulders and she's on her third business already. Um, and so I, I really talked to her about stuff that, you know, those things where they're getting around your head and you either answer would be right, but you know, one will be a, one could be a Harvard Business case for failure and the other could be a Harvard Business case for success and you just can't see ahead of time what the answer's going to be. So I will generally talk to pretty much anyone I meet about something like that and, and see what the responses are, but she's very wise and understands sort of my motivations and therefore is able to really help me figure stuff out.
Speaker 1 00:26:30 That's fascinating. I'm gonna do a little digression now cuz you said a couple of things. Your daughter on a third business at 28. Uh, and one of the things that I see very different from when I came back from the US in 2005 in the UK is this whole generation of serial entrepreneurs who have done 2, 3, 4, 5 exits and not only sort of recycle their capital but also recycle their expertise. You know, do, do you see in the UK just a richness of talent and experience that wasn't there 10, 15 years ago? Now, how does that kind of give you a level of optimism?
Speaker 2 00:27:08 I absolutely do. So when I started my first business when I was 22, so a very long time ago, um, and people ask what I did if I said I was an entrepreneur, they would kind of look at me, oh, she's unemployed, she can't get a job. It was not something positive. And that's wholesale change so that now everybody wants to be an entrepreneur. And I think that, I think it's not right that everyone should be an entrepreneur cause it does, it does require an irrational optimism that not everybody has. Um, and and just amazing stamina to keep going, um, when things get, when you know rocks get thrown at you and you have to jump over those hurdles. But I, I really see something totally different now. There's so much funding available for startups, there's so much mentoring available for startups, government is really behind helping you.
Speaker 2 00:27:51 There are, you know, Nesto and Innovate UK and everybody else really trying to, to fund great ideas. So there's, it's very easy to walk into a group of people where you can get real support to, to set you off on that track. And, and I remember when I first started, the one thing you don't have is any money. You have no money cuz you have no income yet from your customers. You need an office, you need, you know, everyone talks about starting up in the garage or the bedroom, but many people don't have, don't have parents with a, a spare garage or a spare room for you to, to build their your business in. So there were so many people starting with absolutely nothing. And, and back then the apprentice trust was the only way to get any money and it was a sort of six month application process to get two and a half thousand pounds by which time your business would've failed cause you'd couldn't pay your pay your rent. Um, and and things have changed now so that there is the opportunity for anybody who really wants to do it, to get out there and do it. I think the only thing stopping people is the confidence to get started.
Speaker 1 00:28:46 Sarah, that's a great message. So if, if we're back to the quickfire round, who would be the most admired person that you hold up?
Speaker 2 00:28:55 So I don't really have a most admired person cause I don't really sit thinking about that. Um, probably the people I admire most are some of the people in my business who have worked so hard to go from, you know, from nowhere in life to really create a, a world for themselves that's different And, and um, there are a few of those that I can name that are absolutely brilliant and I'm inspired by them and very proud to have them in my team. Um, and then my customers, I've got customers who were brave and, and stood out there and said, we're gonna try this stuff even though you know, it's barely working. I remember the first major customer that we got said, we really like your tags, can you make them work? And you know, that's inspirational cuz then you really want to make them work. Um, and and I I've also been back by investors who've been so, uh, you know, thoughtful and kind to us and supportive of us that you want to make money for them. So that, that's my inspiration that it kind of works for everyone around me.
Speaker 1 00:29:49 That's brilliant. And today you really enjoyed the discussion we've had. So any final thoughts?
Speaker 2 00:29:56 Um, no, I I, I don't have anything special to say other than, you know, to just remind people that IPOing in the London market is, is not difficult. Um, being in London means that you've got all, all your investors around you, you can approach them and talk to them very easily and they're there and rooting for you locally and talking locally. So that's only gonna help your business. So I'd say get out there and get it done.
Speaker 1 00:30:19 I think it's brilliant. So Sarah is, um, amazing to talk to you today and I'm just struck by on the day of listing that, that phrase aim big, uh, big technologies, but the heart of that is Buddy, which is created to keep our children safe, first of all, and then us all in a safer community that we are very proud of. And I think you've built a great company and I'm just absolutely delighted with the I P O and the success, subsequent success in the following weeks. And I wish you all the best good fortune in your adventures ahead.
Speaker 2 00:30:51 Thank you very much indeed, Steven. It's been really brilliant chatting with you.
